PGW 2012 Demo Video

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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby Andrea Di Stefano » Fri 23 Nov 2012 16:43

Mysterics wrote:@Andrea Di Stefano
IThough, I do wonder about commands like 'come hand' or a non-specific 'push/play' that encourages them to find what they want to play with.

I think it would be a good idea for us to be able to map an instruction like 'flee' or 'play' to a key (holding the cursor over the object, or not if you want an non-specific command) for even faster access, or have in-built shortcuts if you'd rather.

I noticed the slightly different vocabulary, such as "Angwy nown to skill good toy." Presumably they can tell between two items of the same group?


The "come here" instruction has been replaced by approach, guess this sounds more familiar :)

In some categories we make a distinction: for example Norns can see the difference between a broken and a functioning toy or machine (we swap the category on the fly basically).
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby SpaceshipRat » Fri 23 Nov 2012 16:58

Are the brilliant fur colors going to stay as pretty with breeding? there's a problem with most genetics based online breeding game, that the later generations always get faded and muddier.
(example)
I hope you've found an alternative that avoids that problem but still lets you mix, like, a blue and a yellow norn and make a green.

(Genesis suggests multiple genes rather than single RGB values that will always tend towards average, and I agree, but I'm sure you can engineer a solution without complex suggestions by us.)

EDIT: This is a pretty bad thing especially for creatures, because it makes low-gen creatures, hatchery-born, more valuable, while "evolving" the norn race means getting high-gen creatures!
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby ArchDragon » Fri 23 Nov 2012 19:37

I have to say, as fantastic as it is to get a video with this much content, a lot of it has me quite worried. Fingers crossed a lot of my issues are either bugs or things that haven't been added yet - I'm pretty sure at least one or two of them are.

1. I shuddered a little when the Shee pop-up instructions came up on the side. This is so popular in current iPhone games and they end up being incredibly invasive, forcing you to perform certain tasks before you can move on. I hope this is just a tutorial section that will disappear after a while. Even better would be the ability to turn it off completely.

2. Presumably after the initial tutorial section eggs will hatch on their own? Having the click-hatch would mean no eggs can hatch in the wild, ruining the game for some people.

3. "Click the hatchery to create a new egg" - Any idea yet if there will be a limit on the number of initial eggs? Perhaps with the option to purchase more later. Or even to purchase new breeds? I kind of liked C1&2 where you had a limited number of eggs. Just personal preference though.

4. Left/right...can we even ask our Norns to walk in a particular direction anymore, and if yes, how do you account for north/south/east/west?

5. The newborn Norn immediately understands the Hand's commands, despite still talking bibble. Again, I hope this is just a demo thing.

6. The Norn Blower only has 20 uses!? Even if your Norns can fix things, that's going to get annoying really quickly.

7. In the first section of the game you can rub the mouse over your Norn to tickle it, but later in the demo you get the menu system. Is this based on proximity to the camera? I think using one, rather than both would avoid confusion. Don't underestimate the bond built through 'physical' contact.

8. Science Kit: Having simple buttons to increase or decrease a Norns most important chemicals such as hunger, oxygen, sleepiness, boredom...talk about easy mode. Either make this really hard to obtain, or get rid of it.

9. "Norns can see the difference between a broken and a functioning toy or machine (we swap the category on the fly basically)."
So that's basically hard-coded then? The Norns don't actually understand squat? To a Norn 'fixing' a toy is exactly the same as 'playing' with a toy?

10. So after saying things won't be simplified you've removed the genes for determining walk cycles? Not the biggest lie and I can certainly understand why it was done. Still annoying though.

11. Disappointing to see the removal of typing. Understandable since it'll be smart phone compatible, but I found this a really nice bonding stage with each Norn. It also allowed us to teach different languages, a feature I assume will now be gone?

12. Anyone else notice that while Angry Nornito is fixing the blower, the other Norn just randomly flies off into space before mysteriously reappearing? WTF?

On a more positive note, everything looks amazing. The animations that are completed look great. Love the music. Love the way you've made the Norns actually look furry.
I saw the Giraffe thing eat something (pretty sure anyway) which hopefully means there's at least some form of ecosystem. Yay!
Having Angry Nornitto in there shows off some of the patterns possible. This has probably got me more excited than anything else.
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby Andrea Di Stefano » Sat 24 Nov 2012 08:11

ArchDragon wrote:
9. "Norns can see the difference between a broken and a functioning toy or machine (we swap the category on the fly basically)."
So that's basically hard-coded then? The Norns don't actually understand squat? To a Norn 'fixing' a toy is exactly the same as 'playing' with a toy?


On the contrary, Norns have a new drive that actually makes them react to things that can be beneficial for the community like repairing toys, watering plants etc. We're still working out some details (like links to other drives) but we're happy with it and it sustains the feeling of growin a colony of Norns that can look out for each other.
Internally, we call this "altruism" although I think we can find a better name for this new drive (suggestions are welcome).
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby silvak » Sat 24 Nov 2012 11:42

That's neat! It's developing more of a tribe mentality! I'll be interested to see after several generations how this trait will evolve. Sense a new norn will they welcome it and teach it or will they try to push it out.
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby Mysterics » Sat 24 Nov 2012 14:47

Andrea Di Stefano wrote:
Mysterics wrote:@Andrea Di Stefano
The "come here" instruction has been replaced by approach, guess this sounds more familiar :)

In some categories we make a distinction: for example Norns can see the difference between a broken and a functioning toy or machine (we swap the category on the fly basically).


I was reffering to the fact he said " 'good' toy" assumedly opposed to 'bad toy', or a toy he doesn't like.
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby FreakVenDor » Sun 25 Nov 2012 01:39

I'm so happy to see a longer video. It looks amazing. It got me super excited! I really enjoyed the music in the beginning, it's reminiscent of older creatures games, not as much of a fan to the more upbeat music but after a while I kind of tuned it out anyway. The creatures 2 music was always a favorite, there was a variety of random soft tunes that just kind of faded in and out without being too over the top or annoying. I also noticed there was always this sad piano tune that played when a norn was on the verge of dying or dead..well maybe I just noticed it more then because I was sad about my norn... who knows. I absolutely love that kind of ambiance though.


I saw someone say they didn't like that you've added the old norn voices. I disagree, I love the original voices. I know they can get annoying to some people (my mother knows this first hand. She'll never forget the little norn voices coming from the computer room at all hours when I was younger ^^ ) but I have learned to love those little voices over many many years and I think changing them would be extremely off-putting to some of us, especially since they have been the same voices for ALL previous games.

The graphics look lovely, I really dig the atmosphere. I know you guys are still working on things here but, the only thing that bothers me is the norns faces look a little vacant. Then again I always felt the C3 norns lacked emotion too. I think it's just that their mouths just kind of weird me out and the eyes lack depth. I didn't really see too much expression in their face. When I look at creatures 1 and 2 norns their expressions really say so much and they spark a bit of emotion in you. Whenever I see a creatures 1 norn smile I always feel a little happier and say "Awww" whenever I see a sad norn in C2 I feel for them and wonder why they're sad and try to help. Do the norns in C4 have multiple expressions for all their emotions? Which expressions are available? any new ones? (we obviously saw angry, haha)

Other than that I've just been reading through previous questions and answers and a lot of things were answered. It looks awesome guys! I am so excited to play!
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby ArchDragon » Sun 25 Nov 2012 06:58

Andrea Di Stefano wrote:On the contrary, Norns have a new drive that actually makes them react to things that can be beneficial for the community like repairing toys, watering plants etc. We're still working out some details (like links to other drives) but we're happy with it and it sustains the feeling of growin a colony of Norns that can look out for each other.
Internally, we call this "altruism" although I think we can find a better name for this new drive (suggestions are welcome).


Oh wow, now that's exciting news.

So, what was meant by 'swapping out categories' then? Was that just simply refering to the object getting swapped out for the broken one?

I guess if you're still working out details it might be a bit soon to ask, but I'd love to know how the altriusm drive works. Specifically how you've gone about creating an entirely new section in the brain. But I imagine that'll probably be something we have to wait for, or possibly even a trade secret?

Oh, and I think 'atriusm' is the perfect name for the drive. Personally I wouldn't change it.
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby SpaceshipRat » Sun 25 Nov 2012 07:40

As for the voices I hope you can still switch that sound off individually, they're cute, yeah, but too many norns make an infernal din!

Edit: The music is lovely, but that kind of cheery tune is a bit intrusive, compared to the ambient music of C3, which doesen't bother you ever. I'll probably end up switch it off after a few repetitons.
"Though men will war and women will weep
Yet spring and the sunrise still stubbornly creep*
I'll sing you a song when you stir in your sleep
And wait by your side till the dawn."

<3 Illyan ^_^
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Re: PGW 2012 Demo Video

Postby megane » Sun 25 Nov 2012 09:18

I've been a long time Creatures fan, playing since I got C1 in '97, and I actually like what I saw in the demo video. I like the idea of being able to hatch an egg on the spot, and seeing Nornito pull out a hammer and fix the blower was cool. My only concerns are petty animation related ones, such as the fact that Nornito does not seem to be facing the object he's working on when performing repairs. Also, the hatchling Norn walks right through the ball early on in the video. I understand that it's only a beta, but little details like those are things to consider.
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