the 3d... whats up with it

For specialists who want to share their knowledge about the Norns, or apprentices looking for informations about the old CREATURES games.

Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby Genesis » Mon 10 Sep 2012 05:28

In the previous creatures, people are happy when they eat at all - a norn hunting food by smell would be WOW!!!!!!! :o

The only creatures who used smells for navigation are c3 creatures when they become home sick (sometimes)

Normaly the norns wanted something - they saw it - and then they walked in that direction - except there is way to much fear chemical in their body - then they walk away instead of towards it! (that's because of the genetical hard written walking)

Oh - and a lot of food (specially third party food) doesn't smell at all!

But could be different in previous creatures, cI'm only sure about c3
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby Shallan » Mon 10 Sep 2012 12:49

Not necessarily. Obviously I have no idea what their code is like, but if you design your program intelligently, you make it so the visual aspects are very separate from the rest of the logic, and all the features are rather separate from each other, so you can easily rip out and redo the various chunks of it. But I'm also not convinced that they are letting the norns move in three dimensions like that either. If you look at the screenshots they have like, http://www.creatures4-thegame.co.uk/goodies/screenshots/environment-the-cavern and http://www.creatures4-thegame.co.uk/goodies/screenshots/environment-the-treehouse, it suggests to me the norns will only be able to go left and right like a sidescroller, though now they will be real time rendered, not pre-rendered sprites.
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby Genesis » Mon 10 Sep 2012 14:36

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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby ChosenPredator » Mon 10 Sep 2012 21:08

^^^^ yup yup

even in the older video you see them walking around and utilizing the ladders climbing down or up can't remember but they definitely go from up down left right and more
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby Seonta » Mon 10 Sep 2012 22:15

Also keep in mind those are zoomed out screen shots. In one of the hatchery pictures you see a zoomed out scene with a " very small norn" (far away norn) on it... where in other screen shots you see zoomed up on the norn. The far away picture gives you a better estimate on how proportionate the environment is to the norn.
http://www.creatures4-thegame.co.uk/goo ... e-hatchery

On the zoomed in images, you see just how much floor space the norn has to walk on.

Lots of videos show the norns in different positions along the floor. further and closer to the screen.
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby ArchDragon » Tue 11 Sep 2012 23:10

Actually Genesis, C3 Norns could smell a whole range on things, including food, opposite sex, Grendel, Norn, Ettin, water, light (yes, light!) etc. etc.

Shallan is right though, if things are coded correctly there's no reason you couldn't add in some extra dimensions and allow the Norn to move and smell in multiple directions.

I don't want to make it sound like it's easy to do, but it should be possible. The CFE creatures for C3 for example have updated brain lobes that allowed them to smell things on higher or lower floors, whereas the original breeds could really only smell left or right (it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the short version).

In theory you'd only need to do something similar to the C4 Norn brains and rewire them to see the world with extra dimensions. And having a basic understand of how Steve originally coded the brains, this should be doable.
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby SpaceshipRat » Mon 24 Sep 2012 18:16

In short, C1 navigation was ALSO somewhat hard coded!

Smell just tells a norn how close is the object; like sight and hearing, it helps the brain to choose which object to interact with, measuring how interesting the object is (nearby, wiggling, making noise) against how much the norn needs it(hungry, bored, cold). Then the engine would help it to reach the target.
I think in this case the engine will help the norn navigate the third dimention, the maps are mostly flat anyway, I'm not too worried.
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby Andrea Di Stefano » Wed 26 Sep 2012 17:04

We actually reworked the Norn navigation system so that that they can now move around in 3D and also follow smell in 3D.
We kept the smell, viewing and hearing intact and moved them to 3D :)
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby ChosenPredator » Wed 26 Sep 2012 17:28

Andrea Di Stefano wrote:We actually reworked the Norn navigation system so that that they can now move around in 3D and also follow smell in 3D.
We kept the smell, viewing and hearing intact and moved them to 3D :)



that is awesome! you're my favorite dev andrea <3 ^^ lol
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Re: the 3d... whats up with it

Postby silvak » Wed 26 Sep 2012 18:03

YES! A developer has spoken!! Thanx Andrea!!!

It's sounding like this is going to be a great starting point for a full 3D game in the future. Excellent! *done in creepy voice*
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